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  <title>RFID Toys</title>
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  <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>RFID Toys</title>
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   <title>Reader Projects : RFID Race Timing. (Hey Amal, I have questions!)</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=774&amp;PID=4072#4072</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1" rel="nofollow">amal</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> RFID Race Timing. (Hey Amal, I have questions!)<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 08 September 2010 at 8:30pm<br /><br />Hi Mumbo, welcome to the forum!<br><br><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><strong><em>Originally posted by mumbo</strong></em><br /><br /><div>http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/B2B/cycle/systems/championchip_system/system_components</div><div><br></div><div>They are using an "antenna mat" that they can daisy chain to make larger. How does this work? I mean, I know that you guys aren't developing their product but how do they go about making a wider antenna? I thought that antenna length was based on wavelengths? <br></td></tr></table><br><br>Passive RF systems in the 125kHz to 13.56MHz range use magnetic field coupling to communicate and the reader "antenna" is more like the primary loop of an air core power transformer than an RF emitter. With "traditional" electric field RF transmitters, the antenna (radiator) length must be tuned to the frequency. The length of the coil used in passive RFID can be adjusted so long as the capacitance is also adjusted to ensure the inductive coil and serial and parallel capacitance are suitable to setup resonance in the antenna loop at the desired frequency.<br><br>The system itself looks to me like a HF or 13.56MHz system of some kind, but they have put considerable time and effort into engineering their reader antenna systems. I can't find any images or examples of how the tag is mounted to the bike frame, but I would imagine it is mounted so the "face" of the tag is pointed directly at the ground or mat, and it is mounted with some space between it and the metal bike frame using a plastic mount.<br><br>The key to this kind of system is that you can pick up tags quickly as they cross the antenna, even at speed. This is probably why the antennas are so wide.<br><br><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><strong><em>Originally posted by mumbo</strong></em><br /><br /><br><br></div><div>I don't really like the idea of an antenna mat, unless it is 1/2" or thinner. Is that&nbsp;plausible?</div><div><br></div><div>http://www.innovativetimingsystems.com/ITS-BronzeSystemInfo.html</div><div><br></div><div>This system looked to be more promising, but I'm concerned about "Spread". I was hoping to get a spread of 1 foot wide or narrower, as races can be tight. What do you think the spread of a system like that would be? In my initial estimate, gates would need to be ~20feet wide and I would like a tag reading section of about a foot or less.&nbsp;</div><div><br></td></tr></table><br><br>This looks like a traditional UHF type RFID system that mounts various panel antennas to a gate and uses signal analysis from each antenna to determine the approximate time in which the racer crosses through the gate. Unless some serious processing is done on the back end, getting even remotely accurate cross times would be difficult at best.<br><br><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><strong><em>Originally posted by mumbo</strong></em><br /><br /><br><br></div><div>I was hoping to sell the "core" module for ~$500 or less and the additional "gates" for ~ $100 (although&nbsp;after a lot of research, it is&nbsp;probably&nbsp;going to be closer to $200 each gate) Does that sound possible?&nbsp;</div><div><br></td></tr></table><br><br>I honestly doubt it. To get the kind of accuracy you want, you're going to have to put some serious money into the RF system.<br><br><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><strong><em>Originally posted by mumbo</strong></em><br /><br /><br><br></div><div>My last question is this:</div><div><br></div><div>I've found myself looking at the skyetek and alien&nbsp;technologies&nbsp;websites looking at their products. I'm confused as how the "readers" work. Aren't they basically a processor and an antenna? Why are different processors rated for different distances? Shouldn't that be based on the antenna? I then thought that maybe it was due to power, but couldn't you use a separate power supply to "amp up" the antenna? I think this was the bulk of my questions. I appreciate any input on that anyone can provide.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your time!</div><div><br></div></td></tr></table><br><br>This goes back to the fact that passive RFID uses magnetic coupling to power up the tag and communicate with it, not traditional RF radiant transmissions.<br><br>If you are serious about coming up with a race timing system, you might consider a machine vision application. Send me a PM if you'd like to talk about the possibilities. I'm sure a machine vision race timer has never been done before... it could be a whole new direction for commercial race timers.<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>RFID PARTS FOR SALE/TRADE : Testing the Waters: RFID Rings</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=701&amp;PID=4071#4071</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8769" rel="nofollow">NightMare</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Testing the Waters: RFID Rings<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 08 September 2010 at 7:55pm<br /><br />Ya, same here, few months late. But would be interesting instead of getting an implant just yet...]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Reader Projects : RFID Race Timing. (Hey Amal, I have questions!)</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=774&amp;PID=4070#4070</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8768" rel="nofollow">mumbo</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> RFID Race Timing. (Hey Amal, I have questions!)<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 08 September 2010 at 7:05pm<br /><br />Hello,<div><br></div><div>I have been toying with this idea for a few days now and I signed up here (after finding a link to an rc race timing system discussed on this site) hoping to gather some additional help with some questions I have. I'm an Art student that has a deep love for technology and an&nbsp;entrepreneurial&nbsp;spirit. This is my back story:</div><div><br></div><div>For the most part of my life, I have raced BMX bicycles (http://www.nbl.org). I love the sport with a passion like nothing else, but a lot of the systems used by the NBL are&nbsp;antiquated. For example, all finishes are recorded by people watching about 4' from the finish line. They have been testing a few systems for race timing, but nothing has panned out yet. (I'm assuming this is due to cost. I do know some of the "Decision makers" in the organization and I want to ask them specifics regarding this issue.)&nbsp;Additionally, All of the information is hand entered via a clerk and the list goes on.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I had been thinking about how awesome it would be to develop an affordable RFID system that took care of Race timing, Registration, Bike Inspection and Race Stats. I'm going to school for interactive media and am&nbsp;proficient&nbsp;in many programming languages so I am not worried about that aspect of this project. I do have plenty of questions regarding RFID&nbsp;technologies&nbsp;that my research hasn't really been able to clarify.</div><div><br></div><div>Here is what I was thinking tech-wise for my project:</div><div><br></div><div>passive tags (price)</div><div><br></div><div>4 &nbsp;~20' "gates" (1 after each turn and the finish line)</div><div><br></div><div>In my research, I've found that active tags are better over range but I have seen passive systems used for running that are similar to my goals. My main concern is with the gates that the riders need to pass through.</div><div><br></div><div>I've found two similar systems that are in place and I had some questions about them:</div><div><br></div><div>http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/B2B/cycle/systems/championchip_system/system_components</div><div><br></div><div>They are using an "antenna mat" that they can daisy chain to make larger. How does this work? I mean, I know that you guys aren't developing their product but how do they go about making a wider antenna? I thought that antenna length was based on wavelengths?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I don't really like the idea of an antenna mat, unless it is 1/2" or thinner. Is that&nbsp;plausible?</div><div><br></div><div>http://www.innovativetimingsystems.com/ITS-BronzeSystemInfo.html</div><div><br></div><div>This system looked to be more promising, but I'm concerned about "Spread". I was hoping to get a spread of 1 foot wide or narrower, as races can be tight. What do you think the spread of a system like that would be? In my initial estimate, gates would need to be ~20feet wide and I would like a tag reading section of about a foot or less.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I was hoping to sell the "core" module for ~$500 or less and the additional "gates" for ~ $100 (although&nbsp;after a lot of research, it is&nbsp;probably&nbsp;going to be closer to $200 each gate) Does that sound possible?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>My last question is this:</div><div><br></div><div>I've found myself looking at the skyetek and alien&nbsp;technologies&nbsp;websites looking at their products. I'm confused as how the "readers" work. Aren't they basically a processor and an antenna? Why are different processors rated for different distances? Shouldn't that be based on the antenna? I then thought that maybe it was due to power, but couldn't you use a separate power supply to "amp up" the antenna? I think this was the bulk of my questions. I appreciate any input on that anyone can provide.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your time!</div><div><br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Reader Projects : Another wild and crazy idea</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=772&amp;PID=4069#4069</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8765" rel="nofollow">Anon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Another wild and crazy idea<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 08 September 2010 at 7:46am<br /><br />K, thanks]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 07:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>RFID PARTS FOR SALE/TRADE : Testing the Waters: RFID Rings</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=701&amp;PID=4068#4068</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8767" rel="nofollow">ivarsand</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Testing the Waters: RFID Rings<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 08 September 2010 at 4:03am<br /><br />A few months late, but ... I am very interested.<br><br><br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 04:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>HOW-TOs and other projects : Using car key for home door unlock</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=773&amp;PID=4067#4067</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8767" rel="nofollow">ivarsand</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Using car key for home door unlock<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 08 September 2010 at 4:00am<br /><br />My car has "keyless entry". That means I can unlock, lock, start and stop the car with the key in my pocket. It has two touch sensitive areas on the door handle for unlock and lock and a start button on the dash for starting and stopping the engine.<br><br>I would like to use the same key for unlocking and locking my front door in the following way:<br><br>With the car key in my pocket:<br>When I touch the door handle, the door unlocks.<br>When I press a button beside the door, the door locks<br><br>Is there any possibility that I will be able to read some kind of id from the car key (BMW 2007 model). The key is active and has a battery. <br>If so, how may I read the key. What hardware and software would be necessary?<br><br>Any help apreciated<br><br><br><br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 04:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Reader Projects : Another wild and crazy idea</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=772&amp;PID=4066#4066</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1" rel="nofollow">amal</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Another wild and crazy idea<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 07 September 2010 at 11:33am<br /><br />1. i alluded to that above, but i'm not an EE, you'll have to pay someone to figure that out.<br><br>2. yes. the copper would not be too thin because you can pretty much design a pcb with whatever specs you want.<br><br>3. <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=770" target="_blank">i doubt it.</a><br> ]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Reader Projects : Another wild and crazy idea</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=772&amp;PID=4065#4065</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8765" rel="nofollow">Anon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Another wild and crazy idea<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 07 September 2010 at 7:52am<br /><br />Sooo, the to the answer the questions???]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 07:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Reader Projects : Another wild and crazy idea</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=772&amp;PID=4064#4064</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1" rel="nofollow">amal</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Another wild and crazy idea<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 06 September 2010 at 12:29pm<br /><br />Yeah I've seen this and other interesting RFID instructables. Detecting a reader from greater range may in fact be possible. Communicating with it would not be, but detecting it may. I'm unaware of the electric field effects produced by a resonant loop antenna. There may not be much of anything to read from a distance since the electrical potential of the antenna is nill as it loops back into the resonator... but it might be worth a shot. A simple test would be to build an AM style radio receiver and tune it to 13.56MHz or even 125kHz to see if you can get a carrier signal tuned in.<br><br>If that works, you may also enable you to eaves drop on the conversation between tag and reader based on amplitude modulation of the magnetic field and its affect on the electric field being picked up on. However, my hunch is that there isn't much of an electric field produced by a resonant loop antenna and thus an active tuner won't be able to pick up much at any significant distance.<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 12:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Reader Projects : Another wild and crazy idea</title>
   <link>http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=772&amp;PID=4063#4063</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.rfidtoys.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=8765" rel="nofollow">Anon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Another wild and crazy idea<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 06 September 2010 at 7:58am<br /><br />I've found a reader detector,&nbsp;<a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/RFID-Reader-Detector-and-Tilt-Sensitive-RFID-Tag/" target="_blank">http://www.instructables.com/id/RFID-Reader-Detector-and-Tilt-Sensitive-RFID-Tag/</a>, and I wonder the same as More Power!, how to make it active to increase range and wether or not you could use a PCB for the antena.<br><br>Even if you can't I think the link is something you guys should know about, seeing as it indirectly tells you how to make a card yourself.<br><a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/RFID-Reader-Detector-and-Tilt-Sensitive-RFID-Tag/" target="_blank"></a>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 07:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
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