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Motorcycle keyless ignition

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DEcosse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DEcosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2010 at 8:13pm
Here's  a short video presentation that shows the modifed Detector/Driver demonstrating the Latch via the Diode method, the recurring theme throughout this series of my posts.
 
A simple Incandescent Lamp has been connected to the N/O ouput of the relay;
The Reader indicator LED has been physically mounted on the Reader Case.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2010 at 11:13am
very nice work :)
Amal ;)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DEcosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2011 at 9:52pm

I made a refinement to the Reader Power - now switches off the clutch switch rather than side-stand switch!

MUCH more practical operationally!
 
Having done that however, it uncovered a quirk, which is probably only evident on my Triumph and not most other marques.
So I'll spare the specifics for my particular circumstance.
 
Long story short, the ultimate result is - the clutch switch is a nice device to provide the reader power interlock.
 
Otherwise the latch is maintained from the Kill switch as per the previous schematic update.
One other quirk I noticed with using the Kill output for the latch is that, even when using key-switch, the relays will remain latched even if turning off key-switch and removing key - Kill must be operated in order to drop the latch for that circumstance also.
Note that when the Kill switch is Reset to Run, it will not re-enable the Ignition Latch - it requires a re-validated Tag presentation.
Also, even though Kill Switch is Left in 'Run' position, while bike is parked or stored, there is no power on it (or the Reader) until after the Tag is validated - so can be left without any power drain to the battery in this condition. The ONLY time detector is using power, is when the clutch switch is engaged.
 
Again - most bikes will not experience the unique issue I experienced - it is only the unique circuit path caused by the combination of solenoid and headlight-cut relay on the Triumph that creates this uncommon circumstance.
 
For most bikes, should be able to use the clutch switch without any issue.
Operationally, is immensely practical:
no switches, just pull clutch lever, brush past detector with tag to latch ignition and operate starter button - all the while maintaining clutch lever pulled in and single movement with right hand to trigger Tag Reader and start button.
 
Here it is in operation
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by DEcosse - 12 January 2011 at 12:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscoapg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2011 at 2:48pm
Hey guys, I have been reading this carefully and plan to do this with my 2001 Honda CBR F4i. I know that my ignition switch has 4 wires. Two are for fused power, one for power, and one is a pesky wire which requires a 5.1 zener diode and 1k ohm 5% resistor to start the bike. Now my question is, I want to be able to also, use the killswitch to power the RFID reader, as well as kill the power to the bike so I know the DPDT switch in my version of Amal Graafstra's Diagram (To Amal- I mean no offence by editing it and was uncertain if you would prefer I keep your name on it or not as it may be incorrect! So I wrote that it was my version of your diagram, I hope that is OK.) would be replaced then by the killswitch wiring but am uncertain as to how. Also, I need to know if my understanding is correct in assuming that I need one relay per wire on my ignition and how the relays would be wired to my current ignition. I have attached what I believe it should look like and would really appreciate some feedback! I also have attached the wiring for my killswitch and would really appreciate it if anyone could tell me (as I know Amal said an additional relay was necessary to use this function) what relay I would need and how to wire it to the kill switch.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE FOR THE HELP!

Also the diagram was altered to show that my reader unit only has 1 ground not two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DEcosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2011 at 11:22pm
I'm not intimate with Honda's so take your word that you need 5V on that Pink wire to satisfy the ECM (presumably anti-theft feature) - that appears similar to Suzukis but that utilizes simple resistor in the the key-switch to divide the voltage.
This is how you would wire to get the 5V to the pink wire.
 
 
Utilizing the Kill/Run switch is not trivial for several reasons:
1) is Single pole and you want it to do job of double pole
2) That switch is currently powered off the Key-Switch (i.e. AFTER the ignition switch on the R/Bl line)
3) Power to that switch also feeds the start switch & headlights - wired inside the switch housing assembly.
 
So - you can first replace the DPST switch with a single pole by adding the diode shown and reconfiguring as shown.
That also saves two relays from your original diagram
But because of the internally connected config of the actual kill/run/start switch, I would suggest you may be better going with either an auxiliary switch like this:
There is no need for switch to be hidden - system is secure even with switch in plain view (only thing that turns on is power to the reader)
 
 or one of the schemes I suggested earlier - like the side-stand switch for example (in the neagtive line rather than positive)
 
 
 


Edited by DEcosse - 24 December 2011 at 11:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DEcosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2011 at 12:24pm
Here is scheme utilizing the side-stand switch as your main power enable for the Reader instead of trying to reconfigure the Kill/Run Switch - so no auxiliary switch is required.
 
 
Again, no personal knowledge of the Honda security interlock, so that Zener config based on premise that ECM requires 5V into ECM to enable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscoapg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2011 at 10:50am
Hey D'ecosse, THANK YOU!!! I feel I would have been unable to find the actual solution to the wiring without some help so I appreciate it a lot. I have been very busy with work which is why I had not yet responded. I think, if time allows, that I may start the wiring tomorrow. I will just have to go out and buy the relays and diodes. I'll post back with more updates! I think the sidestand switch will be the perfect solution and with your help it seems all will be easy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DEcosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2011 at 12:35pm
I've been doing some research on the anti-theft interlock on the F4:
From what I can find from searches on various Honda Forums, it appears the correct zener voltage you need is 3.9V and simply connected in series to simply drop the voltage by that much; the actual voltage required on the pink wire is around 9V apparently (although there must be a 'window' since battery voltage will vary somewhat from bike to bike) - I have also seen report that 3.3V will work successfully.
i.e, If battery voltage is 12.6V, then pink wire would be 12.6 - 3.9 = 8.7V (or 9.3 with 3.3V)
 
5.1V zener may potentially be a little too high (creating pink wire voltage of 7.x V) and unfortunately RadioShack does not have a range of other values - only 5.1 or 12V.
 
With the zener connected in series, it would look like this
 
 
If you want to know what your current status is, turn on ignition and measure the voltage on the pink wire (push a needle through the insulation) with the red probe of your meter, with black probe on your battery negative.
I also found post that suggested if you connected a std 9V battery with the negative connected to your bike battery -ve ground system and the positive to the pink wire, that should work.
If you try that, it will confirm that you can use the scheme from my diagram in the earlier post above, using a 9V zener instead of 5v, or simply can use the 3.3 or 3.9V as connected in the diagram on this post.
 
You could certainly try with a 5.1V diode connected per the diagram in THIS post - if it does not work, then try the battery trick. Then if that proves, you can purchase a 3.9V zener
If you can't find a local electronic supply/repair shop (other than RadioShack) in your area, you can always EBay
 
 
 


Edited by DEcosse - 26 December 2011 at 12:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscoapg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2011 at 8:12pm
Update: All of the wiring off of the bike is done! Other than the 3.9v zener that I am waiting on shipping for, I just need to figure out the hook-up to the new sidestand switch (as the old switch was busted) and then hook up the leads off of the purple and both relays to the ignition switch. Also, is my interpretation of the sidestand switch hookup accurate? Should it stay hooked up to the stock harness the way it is but just tap into it for a ground on both the green and green/white?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DEcosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2011 at 12:11am
   Unless I'm missing something, I 'm not seeing any difference electrically in your interpretation vs what I had drawn, other than the graphical depiction of the switch symbol 
 
Quote Should it stay hooked up to the stock harness the way it is but just tap into it for a ground on both the green and green/white
 
Yes the SS Switch is wired normally as per OEM with the RFID ground simply tapped onto the Green/White
The 'ground' for the RFID reader and the DPDT relay taps onto the Green/White from the SS Switch
- you can connect that anywhere along that signal wire, whether at the switch itself or on main harness or at the ECM or at the connector to left bar switch (to clutch switch) or at the connector to Inst panel.
It is not necessary to connect the 'Ground' (shown in black) to the two Power Relays directly to the Side-stand Green wire (although you could) - you can connect those to anywhere convenient in the ground distribution - or even direct to battery negative.
 
Had you simply shorted out between the terminals of the SS Switch, since it was broken, as an interim work-around?
 
While waiting for your SS Switch & Zener, you can test your system by continuing to temporarily short out the SS Switch connector (that will enable power to the RFID controller) and using the 9V battery for the pink wire, as described earlier.
 
Good Luck - keep us posted!
 
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